chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. We also use cookies set by other sites to help us deliver content from their services. When he came back, he agreed on a termination. 2022. Several women had taken young children with them to the 20-week scan because they expected to see 'nice pictures of the baby'. As though I went power mad for a week, killing my innocent unborn child, and now I am tainted for ever. He bluntly told me, he wasn't interested in whatever was seen before, he was only going to go by what he saw that day. I had my little leaflet, printed off leaflet about choroid plexus cysts. Instead, we were shown to a room slightly away from the rest of the ward and the midwife stayed with us to talk through what was going to happen. The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) have produced a report on Termination of Pregnancy for Fetal Abnormality in England, Scotland and Wales (May 2010). Please note that the opinions expressed by users in Tommys Book of #misCOURAGE are solely those of the user, who is unlikely to have had medical training. We had to discuss what we wanted to do with the little body after delivery. Nights were impossible. The contractions started very quickly and within an hour my waters had broken. But worse was to come. And you know, we were laughing and joking. Because, when you're angry with the world for dealing you such a shit time, you begin to hate the people who populate it. The termination would be averting a tragedy. This was on the Friday. I can feel my child kick, it responds when he shouts at football - I mean literally, this baby used to dance around whenever he'd like scream at a goal - and there cannot be anything wrong with this child because it's part of us already. Others said they were shocked because all the early diagnostic tests (e.g. The thing about that which I felt was difficult is that we could tell when being scanned that there was something very seriously wrong. And at that, I let out a scream I think. I felt sad, but not the complete devastation of the last scan as they had seen a change of some sort. If you are offered further tests, you will be given more information about them so that you can decide whether or not you want to have them. So once again we were right back down, really no, really not knowing what to expect. I had to be rescanned latter. It is essential that all practitioners performing fetal anomaly ultrasound screening should be trained to communicate abnormal findings to women, as such information is likely to have significant emotional impact. I went home feeling crushed; Sam and I both felt helpless. Eventually she got the measurements she wanted. This is not what I imagined pregnancy to feel like', Baby Loss Awareness Week - Voice Five - Bryony Seabrook. The scan looks for 11 different conditions in your baby and cannot find everything that might be wrong. For instance a couple who knew their baby was 'on the small size' were told he was fine at the 18-20 week scan, but discovered at 32 weeks that he had microcephaly. We understand the real meaning of "shit happens". (See. And I could see, before she even said anything I could see that there was something wrong with the heart. And of course some other measurements she needed to take like the width of the skull, which she couldn't take because the fetus was in the wrong position. I wrote a few things down last night when we were trying to go over things, just to remind myself. The same sense of expectation. It was over. And then I can't remember an awful lot more about that scan apart from that feeling of searching of how to react in an unknown situation - your brain's kind of trying to work out what to say, what to do, but I had no idea what to say or what to do and I think my first thought was, does that mean our first daughter's okay? I let out an animal scream and [wife] kind of leapt onto me on the bed. I had a horrible feeling of relief. So instead, I was advised to go home and let nature take its course. She didn't want to see the baby. I still feel guilty, I still cry at random times. A company limited by guarantee registered in England and Wales company number 3266897. In some cases concerns in utero fix themselves sometimes needs treatment. 18-20 week scans provide clinicians with more information than earlier scans because by18 weeks a healthy baby should be larger and better developed. Just doing it. But it's bloody hard being miserable the whole time. I know its hard- but i really wouldnt worry about it too much as the worry will stress you and your body out. It was another consultant, who said, "I'm afraid I have some bad news - your baby has Down's syndrome." . By 7pm, I still hadn't delivered the baby. Hugely upset that to think that the baby was so poorly. It took 20 minutes to push him out. It seemed inconceivable that we would not be having a baby in May. It felt like a lifetime to reach our 12-week-scan. But he was not sure. That's fine. Though the 18-20 week scan can detect when certain parts of the baby's body have grown abnormally, it may not be possible for clinicians to identify why it has happened or make a firm diagnosis based on the scan alone. Tommys is a registered charity in England and Wales (1060508) and Scotland (SC039280). The 18-20 week antenatal scan and further tests, Ending the pregnancy for family & personal reasons, Deciding whether to see, hold and name the baby, Photographs and other mementoes of the baby, Saying goodbye to the baby - services & funerals, Coping with bereavement - women's experiences, Coping with bereavement - men's experiences, Men's ideas about their role in ending a pregnancy. I know it sounds odd that you want to hear that it's wrong, but you, you know it's wrong, and you, you want to be reassured either that it's okay or is there something seriously wrong. The scan will find about half (50%) of those babies who have heart defects. We had the baby cremated. Check benefits and financial support you can get, Find out about the Energy Bills Support Scheme, NHS fetal anomaly screening programme (FASP), Screening tests for you and your baby (STFYAYB), nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3, more information and details of support groups. On the third day, we got a phone call. As soon as we arrived, we were shown to this little room. The consultant showed us the letter with our result on and, yes, there were the words "Down's syndrome". She didn't say at the time that it was a major problem or that it was something to watch out for. The scan will look in detail at your babys bones, heart, brain, spinal cord, face, kidneys and abdomen. Life expectancy of 30 or 40. I think the whole experience has made me a pretty nasty person. I was wondering if anyone has been is this situation and can give me a glimmer of hope. She wanted to have a look at the skull, which was the main thing, but she couldn't see it from where the baby was. Maybe our son would have overcome his problems, survived his illnesses, led a happy life. 'I was having nightmares and panic attacks. I was told they needed to do a blood test to get a bench mark of my hormone levels. And the local hospital wanted to send us off to the regional hospital to actually confirm that, and were not really prepared to say at that time that there was something very seriously wrong. And that was Monday afternoon. But for those few days they were torture. You've had a scan, you've had the blood tests, you've been good. Some things can be seen more clearly than others. And they, sort of two of them were looking at the scan machine and then they sort of switched everything off and said, 'Oh, I think we have, might have a problem'. Two days, after on Christmas Eve, (my 12 week date) I had more blood tests. Parents get a chance to emotionally adapt to news and plan. I was told this was common as my body and hormones still thought I was pregnant. He was tiny, perfect and a Down's syndrome baby. It was real. Some hospitals do offer earlier anomaly scans of the baby, but they will not show as much detail as scans performed between 18 and 20weeks. 18-20 week scans provide clinicians with more information than earlier scans because by18 weeks a healthy baby should be larger and better developed. You may need to have a full bladder when you come for the appointment. A long process of blood tests, scans, doctors and hospitals. I want to stop having such horrible thoughts. You're in and out and that was it. The pain was bearable but uncomfortable, the hospital rang me a few days later and asked me how I was. There is more detailed information about the main conditions that are looked for during this scan on NHS.UK. But here I was, minutes later, lying down, waiting. . But now that's changed. What happens at the second midwife appointment? So obviously quite relaxed. What were babys measurements at 20 week scan? You could see her face, and the major aspect that was, that was the indication of what was wrong was the thickening at the back of the neck in this instance, which, when you're looking at a fetus is, you know, sort of half a centimetre thicker or not is completely immaterial to me, and would look like a completely normal neck, but from the point of view of the consultant was severely abnormal. Instinctively, did it feel right? No one else attended and we didn't have a service. Thankfully I was met by an amazing sonographer, she was compassionate and understanding. I would be put to sleep, and when I woke up I wouldn't be pregnant any more. We'll make an appointment with the senior sonographer, the consultant at the local hospital, and she'll do your scan and she'll be able to tell you more things'. The scan was inconclusive, but the size of my little bump was measuring a lot smaller than it should have for 10 weeks. As you felt that, you know, it was probably going to show lots of problems and it just wasn't what we wanted, but at the same time we needed to sort of see it and, we needed to prove it I suppose. I think they perhaps could have done, if they had looked a bit closely. We spent the next few weeks in a happy bubble. And I assumed my partner would feel the same. A black and white picture of your baby will then be seen on the ultrasound screen. My mum arrived early to look after our son, and my partner and I got a cab to the hospital. The consultant at the time wasn't really that interested in that imagery. It was exactly like the labour I had with my first child. Impact of the 20-week and later specialist scans And, it does not occur to you in the slightest. So I took the test and jumped in the shower. The anomaly scan, also called the 20 week scan or mid-pregnancy scan, is used to detect pregnancy irregularities significant in diagnosis of any of the following conditions: In most instances no serious issue will be found during the scan and many parents-to be will come away knowing that all is progressing nicely and, perhaps, having found out . . Had 34wk scan last week and all is well - of all the babies found to have a two vessel cord, was told less than 6% experience any growth issues etc. The decision to terminate the pregnancy was my partner's and mine. An hour passed and I started to panic. No one else but my partner saw how similar he was to our son. And, sometimes, I wish I had invited my whole family into the hospital room to see him. She describes having to make a momentous decision very quickly, and the ferment of relief, guilt and grief that followed, Original reporting and incisive analysis, direct from the Guardian every morning. Wed like to set additional cookies to understand how you use GOV.UK, remember your settings and improve government services. My partner's face was lit up, seeing the baby for the first time. You may like someone to come with you to the scan appointment. You know there's always that bit on the bottom of the thing, 'These are diagnostics, do not bring other children,' - blah, blah, blah.. it's not, you know, it's not a family outing kind of thing, but it feels like it. I have horrible thoughts. And that was extraordinary to see the detail that that could offer. Sam squeezed my hand and told me it was ok. The same unique expression he had when he saw our two year old born. Seated in the antenatal clinic with lots of expectant mothers with baby bumps. It felt so wrong. While some parents understood the clinician's restraint - even when they had to wait an hour or more for a definite diagnosis - others disliked being kept in suspense and wanted to be told what the clinician was thinking. All the hopes, dreams, and plans we made with our little bumps has been taken away from us. It was just sort of deadpan faces, very serious looks, someone else coming to check. The "why me?" And then, so I went to my next scan, which was the 20-week abnormality scan, and we took our first child with us, I think he was 17 months old at the time. Specialist scans had a powerful effect on some parents because they could see the baby more clearly and in some cases people recognised which parts of the baby's body were not working properly. My partner went out with him, wanting to see him. I had hope that the little bumps inside me were fighting just as much as I was to stay with me. Sometimes women were told that the sonographer had found a 'marker' or sign of a chromosomal condition and had to wait for an amniocentesis to confirm the findings. Again, no notes can have been written down because the midwife asked the same question. I was booked back in to discuss management options, if nothing had happened. It was just a few little things like the kidneys were hard to find, and the stomach was hard to find, but that might be because it wasn't filled with fluid. Where we have identified any third party copyright information you will need to obtain permission from the copyright holders concerned. Mumsnet carries some affiliate marketing links, so if you buy something through our posts, we may get a small share of the sale (more details here), tbh, they never give you good news at scans. The thing that I have a very strong memory of is this child's face in amazing detail. Wishing to be anywhere, but here being told the same agonising truth over and . The same anticipation. I give obsessively to charity, especially those linked to sick children. If an abnormality is confirmed or suspected, referral is usually required, although some obvious major fetal abnormalities, such as anencephaly, may not require a second opinion (this should be decided by local guidelines). Spina bifida can usually be seen clearly on a scan and of those babies who have this condition, around 9 out of 10 (90%) will be detected. You will then be asked to raise your top to your chest and lower your skirt or trousers to your hips. The consultant had said it wouldn't be like a normal delivery. There was complete silence during the scan. Emma was 20 weeks' pregnant when a routine scan revealed that the baby she was expecting had Down's syndrome and heart problems. Could you tell? No one else felt him kick. I've still had no cramps or bleeding so fingers crossed everything is ok I just couldn't believe I fell down the stairs, I can't remember the last time I ever did that! Some people we talked to had not had a 18-20-week scan, either because their babies' abnormalities had been detected by earlier . I wasn't ready to make a decision straight away, and I was told I could call them in the morning. So we had to go in and out a couple of times, and we were just waiting around for ages and ages. So we hid in our house. They sort of drew some diagrams, and they said, 'But we need to refer you to a specialist to confirm the diagnosis'. Last updated July 2017. The baby was very, very small. The screen may be directly facing them or at an angle. He looked fine. The nursery I had selected for our two-year-old son; my maternity leave; the bunk beds; the summer holiday suitable for a newborn baby. Severe chromosomal conditions such as Edwards' syndrome are now often picked up in the first trimester antenatal screening but itwill usually be more obviousat the 18- 20 week scan, though usually a firm diagnosis will not be made until one or two specialists have weighed up all available evidence about the baby - which usually means that another expert needs to scan the baby again, or until the woman has had an amniocentesis. I did think it was a bit strange that she wasn't talking, and then she sort of said, 'Oh, I think there's a problem. . There, I would give birth. With my oldest it turns out she has a minor thing that affects 1 in 1000 of the population and wont harm her at all it's just "there" and with my second the issue turned out to be nothing. Another sick joke. Where we were living then at the time you only had a scan at 20 weeks. I thought I was going to burst into tears. I know it is still early days. Limitations of the 18-20 week scan If you are not sure, you can contact them and ask. We couldn't say we'd lost the baby, because he was still kicking away, but we couldn't pretend everything was fine, either. Do you have any thoughts about that? Eventually, the midwife said to us very sweetly, "I think we should deliver the baby now." 15/02/2014 08:02. Or, at the very least, heart problems. All my plans were beginning to fall down. It is a noise that will stay with me for ever. And I couldn't escape the feeling that I was being selfish. And it was just a bit of a shock because it's not really what you want to hear - you don't really expect that. And so we had to go out a couple of times, [wife] had to walk around, and she had a drink of water, which is supposed to sort of change things inside, or help the baby turn around or something because the sonographer couldn't get the measurements she wanted. Tears started to roll down my face. And then all of a sudden, I was still laughing and we were all very upbeat, and then suddenly, he suddenly said, but I was still, still laughing, and he said to me, 'Oh, there might be a problem, there might be a problem with the, I think this baby has hydrocephalus'. I mean the lady who was scanning was very quiet for a long time. Within it are a number of recommendations for the communication of findings from ultrasounds. Fine, go on my own. The 18 -20 week fetal anomaly scan is a watershed in most pregnancies because for the majority of women it will be the last time they are scanned before giving birth. But even if I was there, I still think I would have wanted to see the detail on the scan. This one cannot show you anything, that's what's inside your mind. She asked me how far gone I thought we were, and if I could have been mistaken. And you could see, where you should have a picture of 4 chambers, you could really see 2. We strongly advise readers not to take drugs that are not prescribed by your qualified healthcare provider. Previous scans in this pregnancy and with my first child had been fun - a chance to see the baby wriggling around and perhaps find out its sex. I came back probably about 17 weeks pregnant and had the anomaly scan at 20 weeks and like most people expected everything to be fine and to come away with a lovely picture but unfortunately that isn't what happened. Three midwives came and went. Then I picked myself up. See you in -. Most scans are carried out by specially trained staff called sonographers. Wishing to be anywhere, but here being told the same agonising truth over and over again. We decided that we wanted medication to help me. She describes having to make a . Our nightmare began when I went for my 20-week scan. Entering the labour ward, I waited for someone to say, "Go home, you are 16 weeks too early." I tried to keep positive. Some hospitals do offer earlier anomaly scans of the baby, but they will not show as much detail as scans performed between 18 and 20weeks. Some parents wondered if it was possible to have the same scan done at 16 weeks rather than 20 weeks. Could she possibly have something that's not been detected? You have accepted additional cookies. What would we like to do with the body? In some very serious rare cases, where no treatment is possible, the baby will die soon after it is born or during pregnancy. So when that happened to us I really didn't worry, I thought, you know, it was literally the baby was in awkward position, they couldn't see the heart and that was why. We talked about the different sorts of pain relief I could have and I opted for a morphine drip, which I could control. For example, some babies have a condition called open spina bifida, which affects the spinal cord. We left the hospital a couple of hours later. 80 percent of my pregnancies have ended in death and I felt like they were telling me those babies didn't matter. I didn't really know what that was. We would terminate the pregnancy. Sometimes specialist scans such as 3D scans, or MRI scans, are used to examine the baby in greater detail. blood tests, CVS) were clear - and as one woman put it, 'after the triple test* (Down's syndrome screening) you stop thinking anything can go wrong'. We thought it would all be over very quickly but, in fact, it was another 11 hours before the baby was delivered. So carried on with the plans, and, you know, planning for the, another baby to come along and then we went for a 20- week scan which is obviously the big one and very exciting, seeing all the arms and legs and once again everything was going fine, 'Look here's the baby, here's the length of baby'. So we decided that, to have the scan and we went along I think early in the week for that, and spent quite a lot of time with the consultant after that. My partner really wanted me to, and by that time I had no sense of what was right or what I should do. Many parents were shocked by findings from the 20-week and later scans. Baby loss stories It can be such a shock so do whatever you need to feel better. And I am slowly coming to terms with what has happened. We were convinced everything would be OK. Specialist scans And, faced with feeling sorry for myself or feeling sorry for my child, I know which I'd choose. I was willing the results to be normal. As two youngest siblings, we were both permanently stuck in the irresponsible, childish role. I couldn't bear to see the baby and asked the midwife to take him away immediately. Most hospitals do not allow children to attend scans as childcare is not usually available. I travelled to work that day feeling amazing. Specialist scans are performed in specialist fetal units and if clinicians feel that there might be problems scanning will be done up to 32 weeks. The gel makes sure there is good contact between the probe and your skin. It was interesting - well it was fantastic to see this fetus and to see this child that was yours that was horribly ill - but you didn't really get much opportunity to see that because the consultant was more about measurements and all sorts of blood flow and various other screens coming up. I had to stop myself from yanking out the needle. I used to think the feeling of your baby kicking inside you and the sight of a foot poking against your skin were the most fantastic things in the world. Please ask your hospital about this before your appointment. The rarest scenario is that the baby is severely ill and choices will need to be made. After half an hour of lying on the bed, I was starting to get nervous, but was excited to find out that the baby would be a boy and that I could see his little heart beating strongly.

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